Post by JNeuhoff » Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:08 pm

You originally mentioned
a complete extension pack
What extensions do you think are vital for an ecommerce store which isn't provided by OpenCart?

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Post by IP_CAM » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:08 am

I will be more than happy if you can share:
1- some reliable, well organized resources providing how to develop in Opencart default theme,
2- alternative cms' or extensions that can provide equivalent capacities as Journal provides.
Well, you could not have it pointed out better, for a lot of (like-to-be) OC Users, it's all about
sharing. They're already used to get most everything for free on the Web, and they have
a hard time, accepting, to eventually pay for what they like best, to at least 'shine' like a real Pro. :crazy:

To me, it only proves, how little they know about (real) Business. And it's no wonder, that most
of them will never make it, it takes much more than a Box full of Tools, to get to be a Mechanic.
And at the Web, it's about the same, it's full of (free) Tools, but only a fraction of those, trying
to make use of them, will ever succeed, due to the lack of basic Knowledge, on what it takes in
'real' Business, to get somewhere in Life. ::)

In addition to the Fact, that they just don't know, what OpenCart is all about. Who in the World
would employ People, and pay Rent, just, to make Others happy ? OC is not a Gift from heaven,
it's just another way of doing Business. But if OC would implement a (free) Theme like Journal,
nobody would ever buy something else through the 'official' OC Channels ... :laugh:

But that's their ONLY Base, to earn their Income. Without creating income by selling Mods, the OC
Project would have died Years ago already, or better, it would never have existed in the first place.
So better be reasonable, and grateful for what you got. It's then UP TO YOU, to make something
out of it, just like in any other Business too.

But better don't depend on free Assistance and Knowledge, and especially not, if one uses
'Custom' Code, especially paid one, in a Place, donated by OC, to serve it's Users and Friends,
but sure not those, getting some Code from ab OC - 'Outside' Source, paid or free, and then
come here, in Expections of 'free' Support.

Most of them will never return anyway, to be of 'free' help for others, according to the
Numbers, shown in their Access Stats, you only see them, after they upgraded some Version,
and their Journal Extensions suddenly show some problems. :laugh: And some then call
others FRIENDS, but in Reality, they only like the OC Idea, because it comes for free, but
they sure don't plan, to share their knowledge with somebody else ... :crazy: :laugh:

It sounds rather depressing, I'm aware of that. But it's only, what I experienced, after
being around at the OC Forum for a While. Many fine Coders have been around, but
most of them faded away silently after a while, probably, to avoid a depression.
And one of them obviously got so mad, that he even 'infected' his Site, as I just found
out today. :'( It cost me ~2 hours, to make sure, that nothing exists anymore, and the
XP-Pro itself seemengly not even cared about. But it was my Browser, showing very nasty
Messages and Infos, and a suddenly uncontrollable 'regular' behaviour, requiring it's
full removal and new virgin install. So, just as a WARNING: Never ever try to
access or even download
anything on the Web, where the Name, VIETHEMES
is part of, it could be poisend. :-\ Too bad, he was such a nice Fellow and OC Fan here ...

Sounds like COVID19 blahblahblah, I know. But under the Aspect, that momentarely at
least 5 out of 10 Postings here are related to Journal, to me as well as to a range of Dev's,
it might and will have a negative Effect on 'overall enthusiasm' and mood, to even visit this
place, again and again, to mostly be confronted with (likely non- or low- budget) Journal
Users, seeking free Assistance here. And a good range of them even got that one for free :P

Who should really care about them, for free ? Let them care for themselfes, by paying for
what they have and want. That would be fair, for the Project, Users, and Dev's, And the most
likely only way, to keep this place alive and well, still over an extended Period of time, that's,
what I fear most. More that even COVID19 ... :laugh:

Just to tell you my very personal impression (+motivation), it's not my Business anyway ... ;)
So much to this, over and out, as a Radio Amateur would say ...
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Post by kk651 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:12 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:08 pm
What extensions do you think are vital for an ecommerce store which isn't provided by OpenCart?
Pop-up menus, template e-mail sending, defining variables for the page, adjusting custom blocks for different pages, fixing SEO details. And so on.

But my focus here is different. I don't think its useful to anyone to compare Journal with the Default theme. Someone considering to buy Journal already made up his/her mind that an additional theme, package is worth buying for their project.

My concern is to provide some alternative themes, another package that you believe might be equally useful, or even better for the users. Guys, once again, if a problem is pointed, its at least important to provide an alternative, please...

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Post by kk651 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:08 pm

IP_CAM wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:08 am
Just to tell you my very personal impression (+motivation), it's not my Business anyway ... ;)
So much to this, over and out, as a Radio Amateur would say ...
Ernie
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/192229314684939
Ernie thank you very much once again for your comments and points but, a few responses to add from my side:

1- With free support;
- if you mean support for Journal theme related issues, I don't demand that in this forum. Indeed, Journal has support ticket system and surely I am generating 3+ tickets a day average.
- if you mean helping newbies like me to choose the right tools for their first OC projects, or guiding them in troubles they face with, well... since my dad brought my first computer home in late 90's I have been spending time in forums. Name it music, DIY t-shirt home, web designing, OOProgramming you name it. Isn't forums and communities all about this? Support each other, contribute to ecosystem, without expecting any paid income?? Hope you don't mean that with your point.

2- Fair enough, no more shopping from Viethemes, also Journal is not worth but then what is good?? Suppose I'm a newbie, with a minor budget as $50 to my project. What is the way then? This is a question experienced members here clearly don't state, or refer to their pages that would require a way bigger budget to fulfil an alternate to Journal.

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Post by by mona » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:12 pm

kk651 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:08 pm
Suppose I'm a newbie, with a minor budget as $50 to my project. What is the way then? This is a question experienced members here clearly don't state, or refer to their pages that would require a way bigger budget to fulfil an alternate to Journal.
Exactly, you just don’t want / can’t afford to pay for the work that developers put into it.
This is the livelihood of developers and they deserve to be paid for their knowledge and work.
It is a commercial site and therefore it stands to reason that everyone gets paid.

You have your idea of what a support forum is to you, but personally I support Opencart on this forum by assisting you with THIEIR FREE PRODUCT because that is what I feel I can give back. "Paying forward" as such. That is not the same as directly thinking that supporting people for free is a worth while cause, it isn’t - you may not remember the world when ‘open source’ was a great idea to combat the corporate entities self-interest, but today this has become an individuals self-interest, which just goes to show that the issue was with humanity and not with power. As such open source is a failed ideal. For that you can at least give Journal credit for recognising that.

If your budget is $50, then you have the almost free option of Opencart Default and putting in effort to learn simple html and css. The budget you have should be spent on a decent service provider, a foundation. When you get more you purchase what you need when you need it. This is actually the exact point. Spend slowly and build your site to specific requirements with modules.

BTW. It is not true that most developers ask for payment for support, the majority of support for their modules is free. Unless it is because of a theme especially one like Journal.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm

kk651 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:12 pm
But my focus here is different. I don't think its useful to anyone to compare Journal with the Default theme. Someone considering to buy Journal already made up his/her mind that an additional theme, package is worth buying for their project.

My concern is to provide some alternative themes, another package that you believe might be equally useful, or even better for the users. Guys, once again, if a problem is pointed, its at least important to provide an alternative, please...
There are plenty of good quality OpenCart web themes, Journal3 isn't one of them. We have already given you some links to other forum threads on what to look out for when choosing an OpenCart web theme. Journal is clearly misleading end users because they market it under the headline of being a web theme which is wrong. In reality, it is a poorly written framework with loads of extensions breaking OpenCart standards.

I am sorry to learn that the Journal customer support is poor, or slow, and that users are then trying to get help here on the OpenCart forum. But please be aware that the forum here is mainly for OpenCart.

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Post by IP_CAM » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:31 pm

Well, from my personal point of view, the main Problem of Journal is, that most users,
coming here, asking for (free) assistance, use a STOLEN Journal Theme Extension. But
if one is not able, to invest 50 Bucks, in order to run an Online Shop, one will NOT make
it anyway. And why should one assist Cheaters + Thiefs around here, it would be contrary
to any honest Business Logic. In addition to the Fact, that such doings will only keep decent
(free) Supporters from further assisting Users, tired of all those Freaks, expecting honest
People to assist them, and Dev's, obviously unaware of, that they only hurt themselfs ..

And on can never expect one of those Fellows to ever come back, to assist someone else
either, so, it's just a plain waste of time, to support one of them in the first place. But I'm
aware of the fact, that some still do, possibly expecting, to one day generate some income,
but all they do is, killing the Spirit of others, to further come here and help, as it has been
the case in uncountable amounts, during my time on this Forum already. But they just don't
know better, because they don't have no business instinct, it's as easy as that .... :D
Ernie

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Post by kk651 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:58 pm

JNeuhoff wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm
There are plenty of good quality OpenCart web themes, Journal3 isn't one of them. We have already given you some links to other forum threads on what to look out for when choosing an OpenCart web theme.
I am sorry to learn that the Journal customer support is poor, or slow, and that users are then trying to get help here on the OpenCart forum. But please be aware that the forum here is mainly for OpenCart.
Yes, stating once again, I am not here to ask any technical questions about Journal, I am using their support system and I never intended to use OC Forum to solve Journal issues. Well pointed, once again clarified.

But with all respect, would you be so kind to mention once again, which forum topics exactly suggest web themes, alternative to Journal? I went through the entire conversation, just in case, and the only useful source were three links and all of them are sort of a guide that how you can write your own theme from scratch. I have background in computer science and am a Python programmer. Possibly I can make effort to learn twig, php, together with html/css in future why not? But there are thousands of OC users out there who don't want to go through that and I'm not talking about developing your own theme, I'm talking about purchasing a built theme, just like Journal, but not Journal.
So, again, maybe you can help us, by providing a solid theme name, or even a link, what theme you believe is better than Journal? If I prefer to have a theme, what theme is it if it's not Journal? This is a million dollar question no one, no one answers! :D

Nevertheless, thank you very much for your honest, humble and teaching responses. Certainly I learned a lot from this conversation and I hope this will provide some idea to other newbies like myself :) And yes for my next project certainly I will not rush to buy one of these "all included" packages as Journal.
Last edited by kk651 on Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by letxobnav » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:06 pm

My stance is simple:
There are issues which are clearly 3rd party template related at first glance, leave it.
There are issues which are clearly OC related at first glance, support if you can.
There are issues not so clearly attributable to either at first glance, find out first.

I don't think it is prudent to dismiss a request out of hand just because and only because the OP mentions he or she uses a 3rd party template, journal or any other. Where and how an OP obtained their template is of no concern to me.

The same applies to paid extensions by the way.

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Post by answersun » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:42 am

kk651 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:58 pm
JNeuhoff wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm
There are plenty of good quality OpenCart web themes, Journal3 isn't one of them. We have already given you some links to other forum threads on what to look out for when choosing an OpenCart web theme.
I am sorry to learn that the Journal customer support is poor, or slow, and that users are then trying to get help here on the OpenCart forum. But please be aware that the forum here is mainly for OpenCart.
Yes, stating once again, I am not here to ask any technical questions about Journal, I am using their support system and I never intended to use OC Forum to solve Journal issues. Well pointed, once again clarified.

But with all respect, would you be so kind to mention once again, which forum topics exactly suggest web themes, alternative to Journal? I went through the entire conversation, just in case, and the only useful source were three links and all of them are sort of a guide that how you can write your own theme from scratch. I have background in computer science and am a Python programmer. Possibly I can make effort to learn twig, php, together with html/css in future why not? But there are thousands of OC users out there who don't want to go through that and I'm not talking about developing your own theme, I'm talking about purchasing a built theme, just like Journal, but not Journal.
So, again, maybe you can help us, by providing a solid theme name, or even a link, what theme you believe is better than Journal? If I prefer to have a theme, what theme is it if it's not Journal? This is a million dollar question no one, no one answers! :D

Nevertheless, thank you very much for your honest, humble and teaching responses. Certainly I learned a lot from this conversation and I hope this will provide some idea to other newbies like myself :) And yes for my next project certainly I will not rush to buy one of these "all included" packages as Journal.

Hi, have you found any good alternative to Journal?

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Post by thekrotek » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:58 am

answersun wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:42 am
Hi, have you found any good alternative to Journal?
Any other theme is a good alternative to Journal. Pick what you like.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:25 am

What's so special about Journal that you can't live without it? Remember Journal is not OpenCart, 2 different frameworks.

There are some highly compatible themes on the OpenCart market place, such as this one from Antropy.

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Post by johnp » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:05 am

If you have the time and patience go through a few tutorials. Devoliping a custom design from the default theme is not that hard. I suggest it would be time well spent.

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Post by padaliyajay » Sun May 30, 2021 6:03 pm

p419 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:14 pm
If Journal is so bad why doesn't someone just engineer a fully compliant template with all of the best end user features that Journal has?
It seems like a great business opportunity given there appears to be no really good Open Cart templates available.
Yes here it is. poco theme is also advanced like journal theme. i was working on it about 3 years and still working on it. i made a lot of features and most advanced page builder
https://poco-theme.com/

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Post by padaliyajay » Sun May 30, 2021 6:09 pm

answersun wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:42 am
kk651 wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:58 pm
JNeuhoff wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:45 pm
There are plenty of good quality OpenCart web themes, Journal3 isn't one of them. We have already given you some links to other forum threads on what to look out for when choosing an OpenCart web theme.
I am sorry to learn that the Journal customer support is poor, or slow, and that users are then trying to get help here on the OpenCart forum. But please be aware that the forum here is mainly for OpenCart.
Yes, stating once again, I am not here to ask any technical questions about Journal, I am using their support system and I never intended to use OC Forum to solve Journal issues. Well pointed, once again clarified.

But with all respect, would you be so kind to mention once again, which forum topics exactly suggest web themes, alternative to Journal? I went through the entire conversation, just in case, and the only useful source were three links and all of them are sort of a guide that how you can write your own theme from scratch. I have background in computer science and am a Python programmer. Possibly I can make effort to learn twig, php, together with html/css in future why not? But there are thousands of OC users out there who don't want to go through that and I'm not talking about developing your own theme, I'm talking about purchasing a built theme, just like Journal, but not Journal.
So, again, maybe you can help us, by providing a solid theme name, or even a link, what theme you believe is better than Journal? If I prefer to have a theme, what theme is it if it's not Journal? This is a million dollar question no one, no one answers! :D

Nevertheless, thank you very much for your honest, humble and teaching responses. Certainly I learned a lot from this conversation and I hope this will provide some idea to other newbies like myself :) And yes for my next project certainly I will not rush to buy one of these "all included" packages as Journal.

Hi, have you found any good alternative to Journal?
What are your thoughts about this theme? poco is advanced same as a journal
https://poco-theme.com/

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Post by JNeuhoff » Sun May 30, 2021 8:50 pm

padaliyajay wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 6:09 pm
What are your thoughts about this theme? poco is advanced same as a journal
https://poco-theme.com/
The poco-theme appears to be better than Journal3. It's faster, and has a nicer look.

However, you may have fallen into the same trap: Most of it has nothing to do with a web theme, it has a number of extensions which may or may not be useful or needed, such as a blog, testimonials, various modules. Some are just re-inventions of the wheel so to speak. The actual theme configuration is a bit too complicated. And there should be no need to modify some system core files such as the system/engine/router.php, system/library/cart/tax.php, system/library/response.php etc.

There is still the danger that the poco-theme will clash with other 3rd party extensions.

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Post by padaliyajay » Mon May 31, 2021 12:41 am

JNeuhoff wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:50 pm
padaliyajay wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 6:09 pm
What are your thoughts about this theme? poco is advanced same as a journal
https://poco-theme.com/
The poco-theme appears to be better than Journal3. It's faster, and has a nicer look.

However, you may have fallen into the same trap: Most of it has nothing to do with a web theme, it has a number of extensions which may or may not be useful or needed, such as a blog, testimonials, various modules. Some are just re-inventions of the wheel so to speak. The actual theme configuration is a bit too complicated. And there should be no need to modify some system core files such as the system/engine/router.php, system/library/cart/tax.php, system/library/response.php etc.

There is still the danger that the poco-theme will clash with other 3rd party extensions.
Thanks for your reply.
All features in this theme are plug-n-play. It is not something like required to install whole things or uninstall whole things. all features are divided into separate module which can be uninstall if user don't want to use. and all ocmod xml files are divided by their work so user can disable any ocmod file of theme which feature they don't want to use. for example if user don't want to use theme product filter then simply uninstall filter module and disable ocmod file of filter. so they can use any other 3 party filter module without any conflict. this is a same things with other features also like blog and testimonial

In coding, i rely on ocmod very less because mostly it is reason of code conflict. so mostly used opencart event whenever possible. As you said i modify some system file but i have no other way and it is just minor modification which does not conflict with any 3 party extension code. see below modification

Code: Select all

<file path="system/library/cart/tax.php">
        <operation>
                <search><![CDATA[function __construct(]]></search>
                <add position="before"><![CDATA[
        public function mz_getTaxRates(){
            return $this->tax_rates;
        }
                ]]></add>
        </operation>
    </file>
    
    <file path="system/library/pagination.php">
        <operation>
            <search><![CDATA[<li><a href=]]></search>
            <add position="replace"><![CDATA[<li class="page-item"><a class="page-link" href=]]></add>
        </operation>
        <operation>
            <search><![CDATA[<li class="active"><span>' . $i . '</span></li>]]></search>
            <add position="replace"><![CDATA[<li class="active page-item"><span class="page-link">' . $i . '</span></li>]]></add>
        </operation>
    </file>
    
    <file path="system/library/response.php">
        <operation>
            <search><![CDATA[function output() {]]></search>
            <add position="after"><![CDATA[
                if(!defined('DIR_CATALOG') && maza\Registry::config('maza_minify_html')){
                    $this->output = preg_replace('/[\n\h]{2,}/', "\n", preg_replace('/\h{2,}/', ' ', $this->output));
                }
            ]]></add>
        </operation>
    </file>
And there is not any themes which are 100% secure compatibility with any 3 party frontend extension. because every theme has own twig code which will not work automatically with ocmod of 3 party extension.

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Post by JNeuhoff » Mon May 31, 2021 1:24 am

And there is not any themes which are 100% secure compatibility with any 3 party frontend extension. because every theme has own twig code which will not work automatically with ocmod of 3 party extension.
That's why it is important to make proper use of CSS rather than having to change HTML code in the Twig templates wherever possible.

As I said, there should be a clear separation between a theme and other functionality, and theme makers shouldn't have to re-invent certain non-theme related functions which are already available in OpenCart.

As regards your changes to the various above mentioned system/library classes: I am pretty sure that this can be done without OCmod. OCmod won't even be around anymore in the upcoming OpenCart 4 branch.

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Post by padaliyajay » Mon May 31, 2021 1:59 pm

@JNeuhoff

Creating only css theme is not ideal. theme can have own HTML(twig). Unfortunately compatibility issue always happens when 3 party extension depend on default theme html. in that case, extension developer have to make ocmod file for every theme which their buyer used.

and theme like journal and poco is not just a theme, it is full pack of extension and theme bundle. so you can add them in a bundle category rather than just theme.

and regarding, why developer add many functionality in theme, because if you have more features in your theme then you will get more sales. if you look into themeforest top selling themes then you will find all are because of their so much features. So to be in competition, developer have to hard work to make their theme feature rich than others theme. and it is also help buyer that they don't need to purchase so many extension to complete their store.

And regarding system library, trust me i hate ocmod/vqmod, but it is the only best method for that modification, because It is not worth to create model and run sql query to get tax information which is already available in private property of library class.

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Post by haydent » Sat May 28, 2022 6:47 am

The term theme is too widely used these days, as pure theme only (no mods/ext) is not so common, and often they come bundled with so much more. These days what most people are seeing & wanting from a 'theme' is a framework that provides a page builder that often works from front and back end, as well as all the features that are trendy with websites of the day. As has been mentioned there can be problems with compatibility of other addons, but that can happen between normal addons operating in the same space regardless.

I think a all in one solution like Journal or some other brand has its place and market obviously. Im considering trying it once at least.

Ive had some nightmare addons too, dont think its just bloated 'themes' that come with more addons inside than you expect , and heavily modify your oc, so I can see some advantage of getting a whole bunch of them together and knowing they should be all working well together, which cant always be assumed when you install them separately yourself.

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